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The Fandom Wars: Round 1 Part 2

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The Fandom Wars Round 1 Part 2

Okay, like, that last round? That’s what we meant by TERRIFYING AND BLOODY COMBAT. The BBC Sherlock and Elementary fandoms went AT IT like sworn enemies on prom night, man. We’ve never seen votes turn around that quickly twice in the space of two hours! Where are you people coming from? Is this what Steven Moffat feels like every day of his life? I will admit that I was cheering for the Elementary fandom to win after the initial shock of BBC Sherlock not being in the lead anymore wore off; even though I do not watch Elementary and think the female-asian-american Watson thing to be kind of gimmicky (played by none other than Token Asian Woman Lucy Liu? I mean, come on!) it would have been very interesting for the competition, if one of the guaranteed favorites had been toppled in the first round by a newer fandom. But yeah, in the end? No such luck. CBS Elementary may have owed BBC Sherlock a fall, but we’ve ended Round 1 with Elementary shot in the head on the roof, and BBC Sherlock tumbling off and staring at John wistfully from across the graveyard until Season 3 Round 2 comes around.

Here's the thing, if you wish to follow the thing. The victors of Round 1, Part 1 are in teal! :)

Here’s the thing, if you wish to follow the thing. The victors of Round 1, Part 1 are in teal! :)

What about the rest of the competition? Well, Buffyverse resoundingly trounced Bones, eliminating that particular aspect of David Boreanaz from the competition. Teen Wolf was losing to Divergent for most of the competition, but overtook the book series in the last few hours of Round 1, part 1. Dexter got eaten up by the Hannibal fandom, Orphan Black lost the battle of the newcomers to Night Vale, Homestuck lost to Adventure Time, and everyone prefers Firefly over Battlestar Galactica. Oh, and the LotR versus Doctor Who? That hurt our feels too, but in the end, LotR was sent back to Valinor on golden ships, and Doctor Who continues to sail on through to the second round.

The polls will close in exactly 72 hours! Vote for your fandoms, but you can only vote once! This is to prevent cheating. If you try to cheat in favor of your team, WE WILL NOTICE AND WE WILL NOT BE OKAY WITH THAT. Don’t ruin everyone’s fun please!

Now… it’s time to determine which fandoms are going to be up against the lucky winners in Round 2… If you need to read up on the fandoms before you cast your votes, check out our Fandom Wars master post! Ready? GO VOTE!

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White Collar vs Burn Notice Poll - vote for your fandoms

Harry Potter vs Artemis Fowl fandom poll

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Supernatural vs Charmed Fandom Poll

Once Upon a Time vs Merlin Fan Poll fandom wars

Star Trek vs Star Wars fandom poll vote now

Justice League vs Avengers fan poll fandom wars vote now

 

How much do you hate us right now? Whom are you voting for? Any interesting bets? Let us know in the comments below, and don’t forget to follow @ThreeChicGeeks on Twitter and like us on Facebook for the most current updates on the Fandom Deathmatch!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Author: Freak Geek

I love candlelight dinners, long walks on the beach and killing demons. Usually you can find me at rock concerts. 90% of redditors believe me to be male. I'm pretty sure I'm Loki.

81 thoughts on “The Fandom Wars: Round 1 Part 2

  1. The formatting just never goes my way does it…

  2. “Homosexual Undertones and Magic”…. I’m thoroughly amused right now… Just so long as Merlin keeps winning. Love Once Upon A Time and all, but Merlin kicks butt.

  3. Making me choose between The Avengers and The Justice League. Not cool at all.
    The rest were simple…ish.

  4. This one was easier to pick from. Well, for me anyway

  5. You put the Trekkies against the Star Wars fandom? Are you trying to set the internet on fire?

  6. Pitting Supernatural against Charmed is too easy!

  7. I hate you. I sooo much hate you. Hunger Games and Games of Thrones? C’moooon! Why do you have to hurt my feelings? ç__ç *cries in a corner*
    And Star Wars and Star Trek? Are you planning a (virtual) nuclear war?

  8. putting ouat against doctor who? are you trying to kill me?

  9. Avengers vs. Justice League was too easy.

    Love me some Loki!

  10. Much easier to choose…With the exception of Trek and Wars. Having grown up with both (yes I saw the original Star Wars in the theater when it came out, the first time) I’ve never thought about which one was better. I know that you have those that are die hard Trekkies and those that think Roddenberry can suck an egg because the Millennium Falcon would kick the Enterprise’s ass any day of the week, but they were so different that you could love them both. Ultimately I ended up voting for Star Trek; barely acting Pine (Shatner wasn’t much better) and Forced Spock/Uhura relationship and all, because Episodes 1-3 and the prospect of the Disney Leia have tarnished the once great Empire.

  11. Reblogged this on The Collective and commented:
    Time to vote in round 2 of the Fandom Wars! I cast my vote, will you?

  12. This one was so much easier than the last round – not near as many fingernail biting experiences!!!!

  13. Psych FTW! That one was SO easy.

  14. “even though I do not watch Elementary and think the female-asian-american Watson thing to be kind of gimmicky (played by none other than Token Asian Woman Lucy Liu? I mean, come on!)”

    Seriously? Even if you hadn’t stated it, it was obvious from the rest of comment that you don’t watch the show. “Token Asian Woman” implies they chose Lucy Liu based solely on her ethnicity and gender -any Asian woman would have done- and then she can stand there and look pretty. Don’t reduce people down to that.

    Gimmicky implies something of little value used to lure you in. What if they were interested in exploring an old, beloved relationship from a fresh perspective?

    You don’t have to watch Elementary, but please get over Joan’s ethnicity and gender. Not everyone in the world is some white, male.

    • thank you a lot for this comment thank you SO much

      though its after the poll was done, arent pollmakers supposed to be unbiased anyway? um

      • We’re people, not robots. We have our biases, same as everyone. However, we are more than willing to put them aside in favor of letting the people speak, even if it physically hurts us. I don’t think any of us are over the LotR/Doctor Who poll yet…

    • The fact of the matter is that the various races and orientations inserted into the show IS gimmicky. It doesn’t change the fact that Elementary is a good show, but it’s obvious that the use of so many token characters was to bring people in by shouting ‘HEY LOOK REPRESENTATION WATCH OUR SHOW’.

      • NOT THIS.

        according to this argument, correcting the racism of a 100% white-people world in tv is impossible without resorting to gimmick. and even if that were true, promotion for *every* show comes down to [INSERT STATEMENT HERE] WATCH OUR SHOW. what’s so bad about highlighting the diversity of the human population? the only thing wrong with Elementary in that context is that the cast is still too cis, too white, too straight, and too male to be accurate representation.

        on the other hand, I find CBS’s promotion of the show to be misleading: first, in my opinion the promotion rarely highlights representation as a reason to watch (perhaps you’re seeing commercials I have not), and second, it seems to think the show is a procedural like its other crime dramas. Perhaps that’s why so many folks who’ve never or barely watched it think it’s a procedural too. I think it’s a character-driven drama with smart humour and long-term arcs exploring the development of an iconic friendship and how that relationship changes and shapes the individuals involved. That the characters happen to work at crime scenes is largely irrelevant to my enjoyment of them, except to the extent that the crimes allow for additional exploration of social justice issues. Which, in turn, allow for further character development and exploration.

      • Actually, what seems to be more “gimmicky” is to have an all white cast on a show that happens in a place and time where that just doesn’t reflect the reality anymore. Do you think the Elementary producers didn’t know that Elementary will get a lot of hate for changing Watson’s gender and race? These people are smart enough to know that the general public hates major changes to canon characters and they went ahead and did it anyway. By doing this, it’s more likely that they alienated a good part of the Sherlock Holmes fans than reeled them in, which defies the purpose doesn’t it? I could say BBC Sherlock’s flashy special effects are gimmicky, btw. And lastly, a “modern-day” adaptation takes more than just taking all the characters and dropping them in 21st century England/America etc. You have to adapt society in a way that doesn’t make the characters look displaced and unrealistic. And this is London/ New York we are talking about. They are 2 of the most diverse cities in their respective countries. Do you expect me to believe that it just so happened that all the characters were white? I don’t know if you have even watched the show, but Lucy Liu’s character is so much more than her race/gender. So are the other “token characters” as you called them. And I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but the only reason Sally, as a african-american female character, exists, is to pass BBC’s Sherlock as a “diverse show”, both racially and in terms of gender in that particular profession. So both shows attempted to achieve some kind of diversity, the difference is Sherlock did it as a cop-out and Elementary managed to make it a strength. They just handled it better…And Elementary has way more to it than just racial diversity. Some people just dislike being insulted again and again by Moffat’s misogynistic writing.

        • Look, guys, we need to stop arguing about this! Can’t we live in peace and harmony? :) But seriously though, I’d like to address some points that people made for both Sherlock and Elementary. I’m sure they’re both equally as good as each other (although I personally prefer Sherlock, as I’ve only seen half of the pilot of Elementary! So I may be a bit biased in this, I’ll try not to be though :P)

          First of all – the ethnicity of Joan Watson. I have absolutely no problem with her being female, just as long as the producers give her the same traits and characteristics as the original version, so she’s at least Watson-ish. But I must say, I have to agree with Freak Geek about Lucy Liu being a ‘token Asian’ actress (or whatever you said!) – she just always seems to play a major Asian role and I haven’t seen many other Asian actresses get a chance… If you understand? I’m not trying to be racist or anything :) But she IS a good actress and so that’s the most probably reason she’s getting all these roles.

          Also, while I’m covering ethnicity, I’d just like to point out that maybe, just MAYBE, the producers cast all the people because they’re good actors. Can you imagine BBC Sherlock without Benedict Cumberbatch playing the title character? Without Martin Freeman as his sidekick? In my opinion, if any of the main characters (eg. obviously Sherlock, John, but also Lestrade, Molly and Mrs Hudson) were of a different race, they would still cast them because they’re GOOD ACTORS. They bring so much to the role. (Actually, scratch the bit about Mrs Hudson – I love her to pieces but I think it was Benedict begging them to cast Una Stubbs and also the fact that they wanted a typical british ‘granny’ type person :) ).

          Did you know in London nearly 60% of the population is white? Also, nearly 50% of the population is British. That’s half, guys, come on – how can you not expect them to cast mainly British actors with that percentage? Along with the fact that only 9% of the population is mixed race, only 18% is Asian, and only 13% are Black.

          I’m really sorry, that turned out less of an addressing of points and more of a ‘Sherlock is better stop being mean about it’! Sorry again =/
          And I did like the 25 mins I saw of Elementary :) I think hard-core Sherlockians don’t really care for it because first of all, it was as soon as the producers saw Sherlock that they said ‘Oh, we could make some money from that, why don’t we make a 21st century version as well?’ but at least they had the decency to ask the producers of BBC Sherlock first. Also, it is a REMAKE of Sherlock, these are the words of Sue Vertue – “It’s interesting, as they approached us a while back about remaking our show.” Secondly – they change so much from the original! I mean, yes, Watson’s a woman, she’s also Asian, but also Irene Adler is also so different – she’s been psychologically tortured for 18 months and then turns out to be Moriarty. I can see how that would put traditional Holmes fans off the show. (Btw, I got this off Wikipedia as I haven’t seen the episodes- please correct me if I’m wrong).

          I’m not meaning to start a fight here, just to resolve one, although that may have not turned out so well :D Ah well, I tried. All I ask is that people respect what other people like. In my opinion, Sherlock is flawless, but in other people’s opinions they might find hundreds of faults for Sherlock but find Elementary incredible and wonderful. It’s all in people’s tastes, after all, and you wouldn’t insult someone for liking pizza if you didn’t! (All right, that was a bad way of putting it, and maybe people WOULD insult someone for liking different food, I don’t know – but we all know we shouldn’t.)

          • Firstly, if you want to stop an argument you probably shouldn’t write a half a page comment about how Sherlock can do no wrong, as subjectivity seldom solves a debate.

            Secondly, Lucy Liu is Asian so it would be a bit weird if her character wasn’t( “she just always seems to play a major Asian role”). Well, I could say that Benedict Cumberbatch “just always seems to play a white male role”. Well duh, it would be pretty weird if a white guy played an african-american role. And if the emphasis was placed on “major” she had some pretty minor roles to(see “Chicago”). And once again, token character doesn’t mean what you think it means, please look it up.

            Now, I don’t know about you, but personally I couldn’t imagine Elementary with someone else as Watson besides Lucy Liu or someone else besides JLM as Sherlock. I can’t understand how you seem to justify that Lucy Liu is interchangeable with any other asian actress but Benedict Cumberbatch and Martin Freeman could NEVER be replaced. No, I don’t think another actress would have done as good a job as Lucy Liu, and most people who have watched more than 2 episodes of Elementary would probably agree with me.

            So London is 60% white.Are you telling me that the Sherlock cast is somehow 30-40% non-white? Or at least 20%?15%? And what is it about their being British? I didn’t even bring it up.

            Look I don’t know where you get your information, but after the Elementary producers couldn’t get the rights for a remake of Sherlock, they went ahead and just made an adaptation after the ACD novels. And as they didn’t get the rights, you can be 100% convinced that if Elementary had resembled Sherlock in any way, Moffat would’ve sued. At this point any of the shows is closer to The Great Mouse Detective than to each other.

            They change it because it’s A MODERN ADAPTATION! If they just took the characters from the books and dropped them in the 21st century, it would have been pointless to make an adaptation in the first place. And just so you know, Irene wasn’t even Sherlock’s love interest in the books. And she didn’t work for Moriarty. And Moriarty only ever appeared like, 2 times and was only there because ACD hated his characters and wanted to kill Holmes off. BBC’s Sherlock is definitely not as close to the novels as you think it is(especially when it comes to the characters, in the novels Holmes wasn’t such a major douche) As far as adaptation go, the characters have been mice, vegetables and cryogenically frozen. So I am really sick of people who haven’t watched even two episodes of the show trying to rationalize what they feel “icky” about in Elementary. You don’t like it? Fine, you don’t need to watch it, but if you can’t make an informed criticism of a show, don’t just criticize based on what you heard/read etc.

            And you say you tried to stop an argument but really, all you did was say how in your opinion Sherlock is flawless and Elementary “isn’t awful, but…yeah…”. You can have your opinion and you can voice it, but don’t try to pass it as a peace offering. Just own up to it, please. This may sound argumentative, and in a way, it does piss me off that some people talk without having any clue. But most of all this is meant to show why this kind of comments give the Sherlock fandom a bad name and it’s really unfair to those people who make informed criticism or abstain, or who like both shows. So next time, either watch the show before you criticize it, or, I don’t know, just stick to the shows you do watch.

          • 1) Take the “token Asian” actress comment and see how it sounds when applied to another famous actress. Is Anne Hathaway given roles as “token white” actress?

            Respect talent and success. Word “token” cheapens the success of whomever you apply it to. Please just stop.

            2) Approaching creators about making a remake does not make Elementary a remake. From what I understand, Sherlock creators said “no” so Elementary went if different direction.

            I challenge you to watch the show and still call Elementary a “remake of” or even “inspired by” Sherlock.

            • Totally agree except for Anne Hathaway. Carey Mulligan totally deserves the “token white” actress award according to this person’s definition of “token character”. She’s everywhere! O_O

          • Yes, thank you, you seem to understand my point about Lucy Liu. I don’t mind Watson being asian and female, it’s just… I’d like to see an Asian actress who isn’t Zheng Ziyi or Lucy Liu get a major role like that for once. I watch a ridiculous amount of movies and tv shows these days; I should be able to name more than two high-profile Asian actresses in Hollywood, right?
            I want to see some new blood. Maybe bring someone unknown out into the public consciousness, the way Doctor Who made Matt Smith and David Tennant really popular. Instead, they just went and grabbed Lucy Liu, and that makes me feel like they didn’t care to even LOOK for someone who might have been better suited to the role than she was, and just picked the most high-profile Asian actress hollywood has to offer – who, purely incidentally always happens to play “typical asian dragon lady” roles.

            • Joan Watson isn’t what you call a “typical asian dragon lady” role, so I don’t get what bothers you so much. Firstly, it’s not like you watch Elementary, so how can you possibly know who would’ve done a better job with the role. Secondly, the fact that Lucy Liu was cast so many times as a very typical character is all the more reason to give her a chance to prove that she can do so much more than that. And thirdly, you are asking of the producers to cast an actress in her late 30’s- early 40’s who has virtually no recognision. I’d say by that age there are very few actresses who remain relatively unknown. Of course Doctor Who could afford to cast someone who wasn’t all that famous, as it had the franchise backing up the show. But nowadays if a show wants to survive, especially on US tv, they can’t afford to risk it on an actress who has achieved little recognition by the age of 40.

              • It bothers me because she’s one of like, two or three prominent Asian actresses, and this role could have put the spotlight on someone new, someone fresh. I feel (and have felt ever since I saw the first promo posters for Elementary one cold and windy day) that Liu got the role simply by being Asian and female; would it have really killed them to look harder than the google search for “asian american actress”??

                • I get that you “feel” like Liu didn’t deserve it, but if you don’t even watch the show it’s unfair of you to say someone else would’ve been better. It’s like a stranger coming to you and starting to tell you what choices they think would’ve been better for you to make. Please tell me three names of Asian actresses in their late 30’s early 40’s that you think could have been better than LL in the role, and are relatively unknown.

                  • The problem is that there AREN’T many Asian actresses that are prominent. It’s like Lucy Liu is in every single role. It’s like they didn’t even try at all…

                    • If there’s a lack of Asian actresses to choose from that’s the fault of the Hollywood industry, that only uses certain races for certain stereotypes and casts mainly white women. You have to understand, it’s not like Elementary, as a show, had lots of support when the concept was brought up. The show was hated on ever since before it aired its pilot and many people were set on boycotting it. With lesser known actress it had a good chance of not making it through the first 3 episodes. Not only would she have had a small or non-existent fan base, but also she may not have been able to rise to the challenge. There are shows that get support from the get go, that have a franchise behind them and those shows don’t need the extra-numbers in order to survive. But Elementary couldn’t afford to take such a huge risk after all the hate it got for being “too different”. They needed to know that the main cast could handle it. And if there aren’t any other Asian actresses out there, it’s really not their fault. An actor/actress with no previous experience isn’t just cast into a lead role. I wouldn’t want them to cast a less capable actress that wouldn’t have the ability to carry the role, just because Liu is “just too well-known”. But yet again, I maintain my opinion. Liu wasn’t cast for her being Asian. That was just a bonus.

                    • We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this; I think it would have been a fantastic opportunity to cast someone who was less well known than Liu.

      • I’ll bite: list characters that are “token” and “gimmicky”

        It would also help if you pointed to tv spots that use these “gimmicks” to draw viewers.

        I don’t watch many tv spots. Maybe I missed all the gimmicks and just found a character driven show that made me want to stay.

        • - Ling Woo on Ally McBeal is often hailed as the quintessential “dragon lady” type of character
          – Charlie’s Angels.
          – She played O-Ren Ishii on Kill Bill, and was cast for the role of Japanese even though she is Chinese. That’d be like casting Scarlett Johansson to play a Russian… oh wait. >.>

      • IDK what you mean by orientations; there haven’t been any non-straight characters that I remember. One time a female sex worker gave Watson her card… Definitely no one recurring.

        The thing is, suspect the showrunners’ motives if you want, but calling a character a token/gimmick means you think they’re flat and exotified, and I was worried, but that’s just not true of Joan Watson. Her POV is important. And Bell, Moriarty, Alfredo, and Ms. Hudson are fine enough secondary & minor characters; they’re interesting, they have personalities. So what are you really criticizing??

    • I live in New York and went to a high school that was 40% hispanic and 40% asian for five years. I think I know what NYC looks like, and yes, obviously it’s a very diverse area. However, my issue is that the actress, Lucy Liu, is Hollywood’s first choice for when they need to fill a Token Asian role. How many times has she played the Token Asian over the years? It’s either her or Zheng Ziyi or something like that. I would have been more than down with an asian, female Watson, but the fact that they cast Lucy Liu? That just screams “yeah we wanted an asian person but we didn’t try to find anyone and just got the only asian actress everyon knows”. Get me someone a little unknown, someone who would make a more interesting Watson, and I’d be all over that.

      • Just because the movie industry in Hollywood is messed up doesn’t mean that Lucy Liu, as an actress, can only play “token roles” as you call them. And the way she acts Joan Watson is nowhere close to the racial stereotype you obviously associate it with. Personally, I think it’s great that she gets the chance to play a role that has nothing to do with the tropes that Asian characters are limited to most of the time. What do you define as a token role? I understand it as a character who is there for representation only and who is written in such a way that their race/gender etc. defines them. A “token” character is used as a means to bring up certain social issues. But Joan Watson is definitely not that. Her character just happens to be Asian and a female. She is not used by the writers to make some kind of a point. And I’m pretty sure that when they first thought of making Watson a woman, they weren’t thinking of making her specifically Asian. They cast the actress, not the race.

        • Thank you! I’ve made that same comment to friends and family that refuse to watch the show based on the fact that LL was cast because she was Asian. Unless I’ve missed something drastic on the show, they have NEVER made any ethnicity references towards her.

      • Being known isn’t bad. Also, LL isn’t in 20 movies a year or any large number like that. I feel like the solution isn’t stop casting Lucy Liu but have more roles that asians can even audition for.

        • Yeah, it sucks that an Asian-American woman has to be hugely famous and successful as Lucy Liu or Maggie Q to headline a tv show when white unknowns get that opportunity all the time, but to hold this industry-wide problem against Liu… doesn’t solve anything, to say the least.

          She’s actually talked about about being limited to stereotypical emotionless badasses and hating it. Watson is a pleasant change for her.

          But Freak Geek, you started out saying you disliked “the female-asian-american Watson thing” altogether and that the concept of Joan herself was a problem?? If you just don’t wanna watch it, that’s fine. I like bragging about Elementary’s characters as much as any fan (i.e. prob too much, we’re nerds), but it’s not actually a social justice sin to ignore the show.

          • Well, we’re all nerds here. It’s just a little bit unnerving, how I wrote one sentence and everyone kind of jumped down my throat for it. I mean… I’m not saying people shouldn’t like it. And I really was hoping that the Elementary fandom would beat the Sherlock fandom on this one – imagine the chaos it would have caused? It would be bloody brilliant!!

            I will probably watch the show in the future, maybe two or three seasons in the future once I get over the whole “John is a chick now” thing, simply because of the whole Adleriarty thing they came up with, if for no other reason. Watching Critique Geek flip out over it live was absolutely priceless! :D

  15. Why would you put Artemis Fowl up against Harry Potter? At least give the small fandom a chance. That’s just cruel.

  16. It’s really hard when you watch every single one of these and read all of the books. The Avengers was the only obvious one for me–especially since Loki is my husband.

  17. Why would you make me choose between Star Trek and Star Wars this is not okay

  18. sad because no X-Files but you know whatever, you know I’ll vote anyway

  19. They all came from tumblr.Say what you will about the Sherlock fandom, but they definitely know how to rally.

  20. Can’t choose between Star Wars and Star Trek. Just. Can’t. Do. It.

  21. Star Trek vs. Star Wars?? That’s just MEAN! I love them both! DDD:

  22. Each time I’ve come back here to check the results, Game of Thrones and Hunger Games have been reaaaaally close… GoT is winning at the moment and my fingers are crossed that it’s gonna stay that way :)

  23. Charmed > Supernatural. Supernatrual got boring for me in the middle of season 2. Charmed is WAY better! It’s just a lot of people haven’t seen it since it’s pretty much the only tv show on here from the 90’s

    • There’s also Buffy and Angel; Star Trek was on during the 90s as well. Also, I may be wrong but there were probably JLA and Avengers cartoons on the telly in the 90s as well :)

  24. The gap between the JLA and Avengers is ridiculous, really shows the power of ‘fandoms’, I can understand that in any given poll either could win because they’re both well known and loved in the comic community, but never by that margin.

  25. Okay let’s face it we’re gonna break the Internet…

  26. Next time you try to break the internet…

    I realize that it was agonizing to come up with the 32 fandoms that you did for this match-up, here are my suggestions for next time: X-Files, Downton Abbey, It’s Only Sunny In Philadelphia, Futurama/Simpsons/Family Guy, Stargate SG1/MacGyver, Beautiful Creatures/Mortal Instruments (my nieces have gone bonkers over both of these series), Clueless/Gilmore Girls, Being Human (BBC and US versions), Twilight (yes it is terrible but people still seem to love them), and lastly the Mommy Porn Slot, Fifty Shades of Grey (Complete rubbish, Anne Rice does MUCH better erotica, but still…)

  27. I think I just noticed for the first time that Les Mis wasn’t on here despite such a large fanbase. I guess it’s just too awesome to have a worthy opponent. :P

  28. I love this! If yall ever need a guest blogger’s take on something delightfuly nerdy please let me know. I think yall rock!

  29. Wheres round 2? are there dates or something that im missing?

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